Lion Beer Bock

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Lion Beer Bock

#1

Post by potters66 »

Ok… after a few beers tonight I’m thinking back 10 to 15 years ago when a Lion Beer Bock was known to exist in a New England collection that seemed to completely disappear. Picture’s confirmed its existence and even though I never saw it in person I talked with the owner of this can. He has since passed and still have never seen this can back in the hobby.
Locked away mysteriously I guess.
Us New England guys have ideas on what happened to it but we can not confirm.
Still an ongoing mystery!!!
Any info on this would be very interesting.


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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#2

Post by mtracy64 »

Check out the latest BCCA mag.
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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#3

Post by keithker »

@potters66 Yup there it is along with all the details....
20230512_213129.jpg
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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#4

Post by potters66 »

WOW... this is strange since I had not seen this article. Mystery solved!
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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#5

Post by Can Dr. »

Okay, I was waiting for this to come up on this page. This can was in Martin Landey's collection. I'm not exactly sure of the year, but it was after Martin had his first heart attack, around 12 years ago. I was contacted by local collector Wayne Ronn, who was contacted by friend Jim Stempleski, and was offered about 100 cases of Canadian cans, he just had to get them in Quincy, MA. Wayne was unable to get them, so I offered to pick them up for him, it was only 30 minutes away for me.
Not giving much thought to what the affair would be I pulled into the driveway in Quincy. At this Time I had only met Martin once at a roadside sale, he had not been active in the club for years. Hopping out of my van Jim greets me at the door, and welcomes me in. Still not thinking any thing, but picking up 100 cases of Canadian cans for Wayne, Jim directs me to an enormous volume of cans 30,000 - 40,000 all in flats. Then, from out of another room George Miller pokes his face out " hi Keith". Still I have no Idea what is going on. Then it is explained to me what is happening. This is Martin Landey's collection, and he is in the hospital, and he does not know if he is going to live. While martin is in the hospital, he is loosing his house, I'm not sure why, but it had to be cleaned out.
I scoff, I was asked to pick up 100 cases for Wayne, I can't fit all this in my van. Then I was asked if had any where I could store them, and if I didn't they where all going into a dumpster. I said, I could put them in my shop. Then it was explained that Martin wanted to see them used to support the hobby, and shared with the collectors. I explained I would do it, but was going to go through them and get rid of all the common aluminum cans, burnt camp fire Bud tab tops, and any other can that is not worth the space in my shop, and add any that I might need to my collection. Then a few days latter they back a box truck to my dock, and unload the cans.
Now the task of going through this huge volume of cans that are now crowding my shop. I call a group of the local collectors: Dave Lang, Woody, Ron Shattuck, and possibly a couple others, to give me a hand down sizing the lot. After many hours of weeding I probably had 20,000 - 25,000 cans that I had to deal with. Anyone one that helped was welcome to grab cans, I believe Lang got a Fort Pitt ale, and a Schultz light. Some cans went to raffles, some went to Blue/Gray, and I even found homes for the straight steel cans, but all that was worth keeping was dispensed.
Then, I'm not sure how, or when, but Woody was introduced to martin, and they start to go to shows together. It didn't take long before Martin , and I became friends. After getting to know Martin pretty well I asked him about his collection, and told him my part. Although, pretty private and reserved he told me of his collection, and how he never thought he would live, so he called Jim to clean out his house, and collection. If he survived he was to get his better cans back, the ones that where in his house that I never saw, including the Lion Bock. I felt so bad, but at this time all the cans in my shop where gone, but he didn't care about them. He was not happy about his better stuff, but was not going to raise an issue. Interesting enough though there where some pop cans that for some reason he really wanted, I never saw them, but George said he didn't have them either. Martin turned his cheek, and let it be.
As I became better friends with Martin, Woody, and I would talk with him about his collection, and Woody and I asked about the Lion Bock. Yes, that was in my collection when I went into the hospital. Interested, in where this can was, Both Woody and I asked George about the can, and he said he had never seen it. Not satisfied every once in a while if the opportunity to mention it came up we would plug it again, so much so that other local collectors also where looking for it, and every time George denied having it, or seeing it. I know this went on for some time, but I had not asked in a while, and I don't know the last time Woody dropped the question.
Then what do I see with my new BCCA magazine, George with his **** eating grin holding the Martin Landey Lion Bock. Although a short article, George gives some details of the can, and his charades of how it just magically appeared. **** like this taints the hobby for me, and I will always have a bitter taste in my mouth when it comes to George. Now, how convenient just shy of the one year anniversary of Martins death and the can pops up. I guess it is to late for Martin to get his stolen can back. What a piece of ****! If you really want to know how I feel let us have a few beers.
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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#6

Post by jacoby4664 »

That is a really sad story. RIP Martin, A man I never knew.
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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#7

Post by fjones »

WOW Just WOW. RIP Martin You Were A Good Man!!!
Sorry don't even know how to respond!!
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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#8

Post by kb »

Wow after really enjoying reading the beginnings part of this story , such a bad ending !!


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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#9

Post by potters66 »

Thank you Keith for the details.
Incredibly strange this popped into my head last night without seeing the new mag.
I have assumed this is what happened for many years without any proof and now we know we’re it was stashed and hid away.
Such a sad ending but I am sure Martin knows!!!
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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#10

Post by menke »

I remember all the fabulous trade stock George and Dale had around the same time. I assume all that cash went to Martin's hospital bills?

I'd heard pieces of this story before but that's even worse than I suspected.
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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#11

Post by twentygrand »

Hi, Matt, who is the Dale, you referred to along with George. Thanks Mark
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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#12

Post by Ed Johnson »

twentygrand wrote: Sat May 13, 2023 5:14 pm Hi, Matt, who is the Dale, you referred to along with George. Thanks Mark
That would be George's spouse - Dale.

This is a really crummy story. Strange move to 're-surface' the can now, or ever, given the very gray methods used to acquire the can.
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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#13

Post by twentygrand »

Thanks Ed, mark
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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#14

Post by Pbama »

WOW! This guy George is a real freakin scumbag POS! He has the smirk if a filthy, rotten, greedy thief. Martin was a very, very nice guy and to hear of this guy taking advantage of him is just awful. This guy George is a black eye on our truly great hobby and should be blackballed by any can collectors that have an once of decency. RIP Martin, you are truly a legend and we all loved your company!
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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#15

Post by DURTBAGG »

Karma is a B, and very real!
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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#16

Post by potters66 »

Like I mentioned, I have assumed this happened many years ago with no proof and I was always thinking about this for some crazy reason and now we know. I would say for about 8 years myself and wife spent a short time with Martin every year at the Brimfield antique show since he had the same spot every year. This is where I got the stories that I now know were 100% true. This guy was amazing in his early years and Keith or Woody can elaborate more on this.
Keith and a few others stepped up to help Martin out, but others took advantage of him in his time of need.
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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#17

Post by Woody »

I could spend the next several days typing this post about Martin, but I will try to keep this limited to all the important highlights and info about this truly amazing pioneer in our hobby. As an MIT graduate and professor, Martin started collecting beer cans and advertising in the mid 1960's. Participating in all of the early Canventions and trade shows during the 1970's, he had landed a job with NASA and was directly involved with the Apollo missions and later with the development of the Space Shuttle. He had later worked for Draper Labs and actually lost his job because he was not supposed to be using their mainframe computer to develop the now famed Beer Can Composite. Part of the reason that BCCA#78 got inducted into the Hall of Fame was a direct result of all the hard work he had put forth in producing such a valuable tool for our hobby. Then, after all the events that Keith described on point in the above post, I simply bumped into Martin by chance in an antique shop in Quincy about a month after he was discharged from Mass General after surviving his heart attack and successful quadruple bypass surgery. We quickly bonded because of our committed passion for the hobby, but I soon realized that he wasn't driving anymore and he had a buddy(Carl) that would take him to his flea markets, but he didn't have anyone that could take him to our local beer shows and regional shows on the east coast. It was at this point that really felt bad for him about the previous events that had recently occurred and started to bring him with me to all the local Pickwick shows and East Coast shows that were drivable. Then came that morning of Keith's Newton NH show in June 2021. We just finished loading up his trade stock in my truck and just started to drive off. Then Martin being the ever generous collector that he was, handed me a little brown bag of openers and said "give these to your son Justin, he will love these". The he grabbed me right forearm, squeezed it tightly and stared at me with a frozen look on his face and I knew he was having an event. I quickly pulled right into the 7/11 at the end of his street and had the woman worker call 911. I was shaking him to get a response and then he turned his head and looked at me and took one final breath just like you see in the movies. I couldn't get a pulse on his wrist or neck, so I immediately got him out of the truck to the ground and started CPR. A cop pulled right in just as I started the chest compressions, and then Engine 3 was right behind him because the Firehouse was only a block away. They then told me and the cop that they would take over and continued the CPR, but needless to say, it wasn't meant to be. He didn't survive the second heart attack this time. Martin was 78 when he passed, the same as his BCCA number. And we have all said the same thing about him, he died doing what he loved most, going to a beer show......
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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#18

Post by MI-Cans »

Thanks to all for sharing those wonderful times with Mr. Landey. It provides a look into a person that some of you were privileged to know and call a friend. RIP Martin...

I was working on a possible story for the magazine regarding the BCCA's publications. The "Catalog" was the first item and it was addressed by Martin in the January of 1973 newsletter. He actually wrote an article about set cans in December of 1971. Click to enlarge...


1971-12 PAGE 14.png

If you look through the BMV, you can pretty much follow the progress of the "Catalog" project. This man worked on it from 1973 up until 1988 when it was announced that Martin could no longer continue the PROJECT.

Something that always bothered me is Martin was replaced by Fred Wolpe. We all call it the "Wolpe Catalog." I call it that! How come nobody calls it the Landey Catalog?

I found that Martin partnered with Warren Hardaker to continue the "Brand Changes" Column.


1985-11-12 PAGE 44.png

Martins contributions in his work life and his personal life benefited everyone that ever came in contact with him. Having read all of your comments and the facts you shared regarding this topic make me think that the Magazine article is in poor taste. If I had any say or influence on the subject, I would strongly support a lifetime ban from the Hobby and all events associated for Mr. Miller, unless of course he can provide proof to overturn the facts provided by the various witnesses.

Landey.png

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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#19

Post by menke »

Once upon a time the BCCA had an ethics committee of some sort: policing bad actors back in the mail trading days and so on. At the dawn of the age of Ditto, there was talk of banning reproductions from sponsored trade shows. I don't know where any of that stands, but the current roster doesn't list any committee that sounds anything like ethics or fair dealing. Honestly, these days, so few of the hobby's moving parts are in the BCCA's orbit that they really don't have any power in this area. Zuckerberg wouldn't care either way. Some like me, on this board, need to be cautious of passing judgment in our little echo chamber here.

I'm now some 45 years into the hobby and I've seen some very good behavior and some very bad behavior and not nearly enough karma. I know how it's supposed to work, and I know how some get away with very wrong things. I don't think anyone wants to get into policing cheats now, let alone a decade on. He said, he said. Those who were there sure know, though. Speaking of Apollo and orbit, they might have an idea who to send on the next SpaceX. Too bad Martin isn't around to make the calculations for that launch.
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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#20

Post by Pbama »

Love the set can article Martin wrote; it was so early that he never saw a 007 set can yet! Also, pretty cool to see that he was a B’s fan.
MI-Cans wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 4:23 pm Thanks to all for sharing those wonderful times with Mr. Landey. It provides a look into a person that some of you were privileged to know and call a friend. RIP Martin...

I was working on a possible story for the magazine regarding the BCCA's publications. The "Catalog" was the first item and it was addressed by Martin in the January of 1973 newsletter. He actually wrote an article about set cans in December of 1971. Click to enlarge...



1971-12 PAGE 14.png


If you look through the BMV, you can pretty much follow the progress of the "Catalog" project. This man worked on it from 1973 up until 1988 when it was announced that Martin could no longer continue the PROJECT.

Something that always bothered me is Martin was replaced by Fred Wolpe. We all call it the "Wolpe Catalog." I call it that! How come nobody calls it the Landey Catalog?

I found that Martin partnered with Warren Hardaker to continue the "Brand Changes" Column.



1985-11-12 PAGE 44.png


Martins contributions in his work life and his personal life benefited everyone that ever came in contact with him. Having read all of your comments and the facts you shared regarding this topic make me think that the Magazine article is in poor taste. If I had any say or influence on the subject, I would strongly support a lifetime ban from the Hobby and all events associated for Mr. Miller, unless of course he can provide proof to overturn the facts provided by the various witnesses.


Landey.png


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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#21

Post by potters66 »

A little off the original subject here but I think a bunch of us could put an amazing story together about Martins life long achievements and his passion for anything Beer for the Bcca mag and here.
What y’all think.
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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#22

Post by keithker »

potters66 wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 8:48 pm A little off the original subject here but I think a bunch of us could put an amazing story together about Martins life long achievements and his passion for anything Beer for the Bcca mag and here.
What y’all think.
@potters66 Steve and @Woody I think the NE Chapters should consider getting Martin a BCCA Legacy membership so that his great smiling face will always be hanging in the BCCA office. Query @idigrust Danny about it.....
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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#23

Post by Tinman »

keithker wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 10:26 pm
potters66 wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 8:48 pm A little off the original subject here but I think a bunch of us could put an amazing story together about Martins life long achievements and his passion for anything Beer for the Bcca mag and here.
What y’all think.
@potters66 Steve and @Woody I think the NE Chapters should consider getting Martin a BCCA Legacy membership so that his great smiling face will always be hanging in the BCCA office. Query @idigrust Danny about it.....
I agree, but aren't they shutting down the BCCA office?... perhaps a BCCA Legacy membership on the web page is in order?
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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#24

Post by keithker »

Tinman wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 11:04 pm
keithker wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 10:26 pm
potters66 wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 8:48 pm A little off the original subject here but I think a bunch of us could put an amazing story together about Martins life long achievements and his passion for anything Beer for the Bcca mag and here.
What y’all think.
@potters66 Steve and @Woody I think the NE Chapters should consider getting Martin a BCCA Legacy membership so that his great smiling face will always be hanging in the BCCA office. Query @idigrust Danny about it.....
I agree, but aren't they shutting down the BCCA office?... perhaps a BCCA Legacy membership on the web page is in order?
The shutting down of the BCCA office is something being considered but not happening at the moment.

Martin's face will be posted on the BCCA Legacy web page if the NE Chapters get together and cover the cost....
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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#25

Post by kb »

just more wow and a good read and tragic ending .. just another more wow.. what a moment in life Woody.. never knew all that
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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#26

Post by twcans »

Wow this is like a Dateline episode.
First of all I don't know anyone personally from this story but there are so many questions.
Is Jim still alive to tell his version of what happened?
Martin seemed like a great guy and the story was a good read until the tragic end.
How does George face any of you New England guys at a show again?
Be interested to see how this situation plays out.
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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#27

Post by chicagocans »

menke wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 5:47 pm Once upon a time the BCCA had an ethics committee of some sort: policing bad actors back in the mail trading days and so on. At the dawn of the age of Ditto, there was talk of banning reproductions from sponsored trade shows. I don't know where any of that stands, but the current roster doesn't list any committee that sounds anything like ethics or fair dealing. Honestly, these days, so few of the hobby's moving parts are in the BCCA's orbit that they really don't have any power in this area. Zuckerberg wouldn't care either way. Some like me, on this board, need to be cautious of passing judgment in our little echo chamber here.

I'm now some 45 years into the hobby and I've seen some very good behavior and some very bad behavior and not nearly enough karma. I know how it's supposed to work, and I know how some get away with very wrong things. I don't think anyone wants to get into policing cheats now, let alone a decade on. He said, he said. Those who were there sure know, though. Speaking of Apollo and orbit, they might have an idea who to send on the next SpaceX. Too bad Martin isn't around to make the calculations for that launch.
How about a petition to permanently expel George Miller from the BCCA? I'll be the first to sign . . .
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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#28

Post by kb »

Seems like this dateline story might need to go to Facebook pages ??? Or as Chris Harrison says famously , “or does it “


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go FishN... Toast to Max..
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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#29

Post by Tinman »

keithker wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 11:51 pm

Martin's face will be posted on the BCCA Legacy web page if the NE Chapters get together and cover the cost....
Hi Keith,
I'm not sure what kind of "cost" that's being referred to?... I always thought if you're a GOAT, the club nominated, and then members voted??

STAY SAFE!
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Re: Lion Beer Bock

#30

Post by keithker »

Tinman wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 7:41 pm
keithker wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 11:51 pm

Martin's face will be posted on the BCCA Legacy web page if the NE Chapters get together and cover the cost....
Hi Keith,
I'm not sure what kind of "cost" that's being referred to?... I always thought if you're a GOAT, the club nominated, and then members voted??

STAY SAFE!
Martin is already a BCCA HOF member. He was selected back in 1986.

The BCCA has a new "Legacy" or "Tribute" membership which is recognized by others.

Here is the page - https://www.bcca.com/tribute-membership/
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